The Obligatory Watchmen Thread

[Beavis Saves]

Not one thread? And you call yourselves internet people!

For those who have not seen the marketing blitz, the constant dripping of snippets and promos online, or been inside a comic book shop, or have actually had sex, the Watchmen is a critically acclaimed graphic novel, aka "Sequential Art Novel," or a "Comic-book."

It's written by Alan Moore, who is a delightful Brit who worships a snake god, smokes hash, looks like a hobo, and writes some of the best goddamn comics ever. Comic connoisseurs know him as the scribe who penned the Joker shooting Batgirl in the gut, paralyzing her, and attempting to drive Gordon insane.

Mouth breathers will be thrilled to discover he wrote the comics V for Vendetta, From Hell, and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen were based on, and I mean that loosely for the last one. He also loathes Hollywood, refuses to see those movies, and hates the people who made them and their extended families. This is understandable, because that League movie was a pile of shit that shat on the original comic AND the original novels it was based on.

And this leads us to the Watchmen movie, being released on 03/06/09. Directed by Zach Snyder, who did 300 and a kick ass remake of Dawn of the Dead, and written by Solid Snake, it looks like it might actually not suck. Possibly. Hopefully. Please God don't let it suck.

Watchmen is a deconstruction of superheros. It's set in its own world, in 1985 America where we won the Vietnam War and Nixon reigns supreme. It takes a look at flawed versions of archetypal heroes and how they affected the world.

Basically, Superman doesn't give a shit about humanity, Batman can't get it up, Captain America is a huge prick, and you get an eyeful of blue dong. And a badass moral absolutist, who would be Ann Rand's dream date, goes around breaking fingers and stuffing people in fridges for justice.

Anyway enough one man Wikipedia, what do you guys think?

[liam3000]

Maybe I'm being closed minded, but I avoid any comic that seems superhero related like the plague.

[Ryuichi Naruhodo]

Watchmen got me into comic books, so to say I'm excited would be an understatement.

[Captain Awful]

We touched on it here (http://eegra.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136), but it's so hyped now that we may as well give it it's own thread. Watchmen is great, Alan Moore is great, I'm not so sure the movie's going to be great. The problem with movies is that if they have a big budget, they're going to be influenced by everyone that has money involved. Everyone that funded the movie, or the company that funded the movie, will have a stake in what happens. This is unfortunate because then the message is lost. Admittedly some movies have pulled it off, and some directors are so well known they're left to themselves. The problem with low budget movies is that they look like a shit. There's a usual an interesting idea or message in them, but it's hard to look past the "amateur" quality of low budget movies.

Of course I'm going to see the Watchmen, and I'm sure that I'll say "the comic was better", because I'm one of those people who can't enjoy a previous production put into a new medium, I'm an elitist that way. If you haven't read the comic, do so, you'll most likely find it in trade paperback form dotting every comic store everywhere. It's a great read and touches on different philosophical view points, pretty awesome. Seth, from Street Fighter IV, looks kind of like Dr. Manhattan.

[Beavis Saves]

Hurm... Strange colored guy. No pants. Over powered. Weird symbol. There may be a conspiracy, Captain.

Being the obsessive fan that I am, I'll probably audibly complain every time I pick up a difference from the original comic.

I don't mind the lack of the "Black Freighter" comic-in-a-comic, as I found it boring, but I really hope they can incorporate the memorable extras, like a narration of "Under the Hood" or Rorschach psych records. Those extras were fun as hell to read and really added depth.

I'm not too worried about the message being lost though. Zack Snyder seems to be a massive fan. In interviews, he complained about every second he had to take out of the theatrical version and put in the Editor's Cut to appease the suits.

That gives me mixed feelings though, as the original cut of his Dawn of the Dead remake sucked ass, but the director's cut was excellent.

But they have confirmed a change to the ending:

The squid is gone. I really don't mind, even though I liked the idea of artists and writers being abducted for it, and thought it looked good. It really isn't the squid that's the main impact, though, so it's possible it can work out.

On the bright side, the latest promos had Rorschach hurming.

Over all, I'm staying cautiously optimistic.

[Beavis Saves]

Holy shit! A long lost page of the Watchmen has been found!

[Ensenada]

I'm torn on the Watchmen movie. On one hand, Snyder seems really dedicated to making the film true to the comic. On the other, he unreluctantly changes the fucking ending.

Oh well. I guess I'll just brood silently for the next five days, until I can go see it with my friends who all think it's about clocks.

[Captain Awful]

My friend and his girlfriend had screening tickets to the movie. They watched it last night and he said he thought it was pretty good. Later when I was talking to his girlfriend she said she really liked it, and she's never read the comic book. According to her there are a lot of "Matrix style action scenes", and they changed the end to make it "more believable". I'm kind of wondering whether it's worth a watch now if they removed the philosophical overtones and replaced it with another super-hero movie. I don't understand the need to take something and remake it in another medium, the point is always lost in translation.

[Scriabin]

My friend and his girlfriend had screening tickets to the movie. They watched it last night and he said he thought it was pretty good. Later when I was talking to his girlfriend she said she really liked it, and she's never read the comic book. According to her there are a lot of "Matrix style action scenes", and they changed the end to make it "more believable". I'm kind of wondering whether it's worth a watch now if they removed the philosophical overtones and replaced it with another super-hero movie. I don't understand the need to take something and remake it in another medium, the point is always lost in translation.

If you're looking for a Zack Snyder movie, you can't do any better than Watchmen. However, If you're looking for Watchmen, you'll find none here. That movie's a fucking joke. It's not bad but, goddamn, does it butcher the source material. There's no subtlety in it, whatsoever. The blood and violence is gratuitous, the acting is mediocre and there's a lot of BLUE DONG. A lot.

badass moral absolutist, who would be Ann Rand's dream date
Opposites attract? There's no way Rand is a moral absolutist. I hate that bitch.

[Beavis Saves]

Opposites attract? There's no way Rand is a moral absolutist. I hate that bitch.

Rorschach moral philosophy is Objectivism, as was the characters he was based off of. Alan Moore found it ridiculous and 'schach is a parody of that view. Also, you say there's lots of blue dong like it's a BAD thing...



Just saw the movie and in short, it was pretty damn good. There is no way for it to have captured every nuance of the comic, but it was great for what it was. Go in with an open mind; it's not been dumbed down for theaters and the ending, while different, has the spirit of the original.

Yeah there's no calamari and a few things are left in the director's DVD edition, but it's enjoyable if you aren't an empty, pessimistic shell of a fanboy. Wait, I forgot, this is the internet, that's what everyone is...

At least we can all agree that it's less of a butchery than League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

Also, why the fuck were people bringing their kids to this movie? That bothered me more than any changes in the script. Between my theater and the line outside, I saw atl east 5 kids under 12. Paying for a baby sitter now is cheaper then the years of psychotherapy they'll need after this.

Finally, I can now laugh at the grumpy, elderly black couple behind me hurming like Rorschach every time someone had a dismal view of human nature and/or God.

[Beavis Saves]

If you are in line for a movie, with your young child, and someone walks out of the theater, and loudly proclaims "This is not a kids movie! Protect your young ones!" would you take them seriously?

I tried to do my civic duty, but I think it fell on deaf ears...

[Scriabin]

Rorschach moral philosophy is Objectivism, as was the characters he was based off of. Alan Moore found it ridiculous and 'schach is a parody of that view.

There's nothing really objective about the Objectivism of Rand. The basis of Objectivism is that 'truth' and values are inherently a part of nature and it's up to us to discover this 'truth'. Therefore, the ideas we hold can't be subjective because they were discovered. I can see why Alan Moore would find it ridiculous. It's a retarded idea.

The reason I doubt Rorschach would support such a view is that (Rand's) Objectivism argues for self-interest, that one's purpose in life is to solely follow his/her happiness. There's obviously huge ethical/moral lapses in this sort of thinking. 'Schach believes in moral objectivism or moral absolutism, which is a completely different philosophy altogether. Moral objectivism (not a product of Rand) is the view that certain actions are either right or wrong. Moral objectivism is equally ridiculous.


Also, you say there's lots of blue dong like it's a BAD thing...


Hey man, I don't need a reminder of my own blue balls.


Just saw the movie and in short, it was pretty damn good. There is no way for it to have captured every nuance of the comic, but it was great for what it was. Go in with an open mind; it's not been dumbed down for theaters and the ending, while different, has the spirit of the original.

It _has_ been dumbed down and it'll only get worse.
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w)


Yeah there's no calamari and a few things are left in the director's DVD edition, but it's enjoyable if you aren't an empty, pessimistic shell of a fanboy. Wait, I forgot, this is the internet, that's what everyone is...

also, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuzQ3PyCjjs)

[Kaatridge]

IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w)

Coincidentally, that is actually [i]exactly[i] what I want.

[Malwyn]

I don't consider myself a comic-buff or anything of the sort. I do, however, love comics and graphic novels of all sorts. I'm a big fan of jeffery brown at the moment. At any rate, I hadn't actually picked up Watchmen until about two weeks before I saw the movie (I'd heard a little about it, but not much). And... it irritated me. I was expecting an awesome comic, but it was... okay. At a stretch. It seemed muddled to me, messy, difficult to follow. I'm not a clever guy, I'll be the first to admit that. But all these 'subtle nuances' to me felt more like frayed ends, thrown in for the sake of it more often than a simple little joke in the script. And for all that subtlety, none of the characters were at all subtle. Each one had a point, a satirical part to play and because of this I couldn't really believe in any of them. I appreciate that it's a very decently written and imaginative book, but as a story it just bewildered me instead of enlightening. That said, I don't have a childhood deeply entrenched in the world of classic superheroes, so I probably just missed most of the point.

But even so, the squid was quite possibly the most insane world domination plot I've ever heard. Insane in the bad way.

On the movie, I thought it was pretty decent. The acting was superb, but maybe dragged a little by trying to hold up a script written mostly over twenty years ago by a man who doesn't seem to know how people talk. As for blue dong, I found that the movie handled it very nicely, very maturely. When you have a comic book, you have the benefit of abstract and stylised drawing and shading techniques that don't necessarily translate well to high definition video. So the only film-based alternative would have been along the lines of what Beowulf did, making sure that there's always a teaspoon or a sword or a hooker's face covering that terrifying little meat tube so that manly men and mouthbreathing dweebs can feel secure about their masculinity, while the rest of us leave the movie bewildered at having spent two and a half hours wondering why all they could think about was penis. Beowulf was pretty terrible. I'm glad that didn't happen to watchmen.

As for children, there were quite a few toddlers in my cinema. Horrifically, the parents didn't march out horrified, and instead let them sit there and toddler-babble for the whole movie. I'm sure many of them were too young to comprehend the wobbly moving pictures and loud noises, but for christ's sake, nothing ruins four considerably gratuitous sex scenes like three crying babies. I have no sympathy for parents who get outraged by mature comicbook-movies because apparently no one told them that superheroes haven't been children's things for about thirty years, especially when there's a very clear 'MA' rating. "Goodness, this movie is restricted to mature adults. But... there are superheroes! I'm going to do away with any sense of logical deduction that 'MA' probably designates a film completely unsuitable for children under any circumstance, because my understanding of cartoons, comic books and superheroes does not extend past 9am on a saturday morning. Come on, kids! Let's see a little girl all chopped up and fed to some dogs!". Ugh. To their defense though, the last batman movie had some pretty sleazy advertising campaign on kids meals in several fast food joints.

So um, yeah. These rants were a little longer than I'd intended. Sorry.

[Captain Awful]

I don't consider myself a comic-buff or anything of the sort. I do, however, love comics and graphic novels of all sorts. I'm a big fan of jeffery brown at the moment. At any rate, I hadn't actually picked up Watchmen until about two weeks before I saw the movie (I'd heard a little about it, but not much). And... it irritated me. I was expecting an awesome comic, but it was... okay. At a stretch. It seemed muddled to me, messy, difficult to follow. I'm not a clever guy, I'll be the first to admit that. But all these 'subtle nuances' to me felt more like frayed ends, thrown in for the sake of it more often than a simple little joke in the script. And for all that subtlety, none of the characters were at all subtle. Each one had a point, a satirical part to play and because of this I couldn't really believe in any of them. I appreciate that it's a very decently written and imaginative book, but as a story it just bewildered me instead of enlightening. That said, I don't have a childhood deeply entrenched in the world of classic superheroes, so I probably just missed most of the point.

But even so, the squid was quite possibly the most insane world domination plot I've ever heard. Insane in the bad way.

On the movie, I thought it was pretty decent. The acting was superb, but maybe dragged a little by trying to hold up a script written mostly over twenty years ago by a man who doesn't seem to know how people talk. As for blue dong, I found that the movie handled it very nicely, very maturely. When you have a comic book, you have the benefit of abstract and stylised drawing and shading techniques that don't necessarily translate well to high definition video. So the only film-based alternative would have been along the lines of what Beowulf did, making sure that there's always a teaspoon or a sword or a hooker's face covering that terrifying little meat tube so that manly men and mouthbreathing dweebs can feel secure about their masculinity, while the rest of us leave the movie bewildered at having spent two and a half hours wondering why all they could think about was penis. Beowulf was pretty terrible. I'm glad that didn't happen to watchmen.

As for children, there were quite a few toddlers in my cinema. Horrifically, the parents didn't march out horrified, and instead let them sit there and toddler-babble for the whole movie. I'm sure many of them were too young to comprehend the wobbly moving pictures and loud noises, but for christ's sake, nothing ruins four considerably gratuitous sex scenes like three crying babies. I have no sympathy for parents who get outraged by mature comicbook-movies because apparently no one told them that superheroes haven't been children's things for about thirty years, especially when there's a very clear 'MA' rating. "Goodness, this movie is restricted to mature adults. But... there are superheroes! I'm going to do away with any sense of logical deduction that 'MA' probably designates a film completely unsuitable for children under any circumstance, because my understanding of cartoons, comic books and superheroes does not extend past 9am on a saturday morning. Come on, kids! Let's see a little girl all chopped up and fed to some dogs!". Ugh. To their defense though, the last batman movie had some pretty sleazy advertising campaign on kids meals in several fast food joints.

So um, yeah. These rants were a little longer than I'd intended. Sorry.

The hook was that they were "human" super-heroes, though that isn't the main point. The main point is that each character has a different philosophy about morality. The great thing is that Moore doesn't say anyone of them is the better one, he just lets them interact with eachother. There's points where, to move the plot forward, one has to be convinced the "error of his ways", but other than that they tend to all think very differently.

The absurdity of the squid is exactly why it would work. The only way to unite Earth was to give them an enemy they couldn't defend from. Though he'd have to stage another attack in two-hundred years or so, just so they don't forget, as humans often do.

[loinbread]

i'm really excited to see it. going to pick up a rorschach or "why so seri--who will watch the watchmen" tshirt from hot topic asap.

[Kaatridge]

A couple of days ago I saw it, not reading the graphic novel, and really liked it a lot. I'm gonna pick the comic book up and give it a read. Also, I'm super happy that Dave Gibbons, who I think is the illustrator of the comic, is going to be at Sydney Supanova! Hooray!

[Flounderman]

Two hours ago I finished the comic, probably the best comic series I've ever read. Ten minutes ago my friend explained to me what they changed in the movie. I don't see why they couldn't of left the alien in, they have the technology to make it look believable, and they decided to be boring. Meh, I'll still see it. It must of taken guts to leave in the rape and dead dog scenes.

[Captain Awful]

Two hours ago I finished the comic, probably the best comic series I've ever read. Ten minutes ago my friend explained to me what they changed in the movie. I don't see why they couldn't of left the alien in, they have the technology to make it look believable, and they decided to be boring. Meh, I'll still see it. It must of taken guts to leave in the rape and dead dog scenes.

Yeah, Rorschach's tale was quite chilling, it's hard to imagine children seeing it.

[Pikul]

I can't wait for the sequel.

[Captain Awful]

I can't wait for the sequel.

It does offer a good tie-in for a female, or gay, porno. The Watchmen: Watching Men.

[Flounderman]

I can't wait for the sequel.

Watchmen II: Watch HARDER

[Demaar]

A friend of mine loved it BECAUSE of the gratuitous violence. Heavily recommended I go see it. Don't think she's at all familiar with the source material though.

[Scribe]

Hah. So, I read the book once, and then i went and saw the movie. I really quite liked it.

PEOPLE LIKE YOOOOOU! YOOOU CRUCIFIED JESUS!! You wretched wretched filth...

Thank you, Scriabin, that made me laugh.


One of the things I enjoyed most about this movie was how the fight scenes were edited. A lot of movies edit their fight scenes so they change view really fast, so you're unable to tell exactly what happened, only some impression of what might have occured. Watchmen's fight scenes were beautiful to watch. The opening credit sequence stuck with me long after the film ended, too.

God that sex scene was uncomfortably long though. It was like the Team America one...

[Captain Awful]

I just saw part one of Watchmen: The Complete Motion Comic (http://www.amazon.com/Watchmen-Complete-Motion-Tom-Stechschulte/dp/B001QFYLJY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1236845709&sr=8-3). It is word for word, and panel for panel, like the graphic, and it's animated, and the voice acting is atrocious, but if you want to see the original Watchmen, and you can't read, then it's entertaining enough to watch. The animation is surreal, seeing as how the panels are ripped directly from the comic, and they just animate them using flash or something.

[Reasonableman]

Well, it's not voice acting, it's narration (hence why it's atrocious; couldn't they at least get a doggamn woman for the female parts?) but it's pretty damned cool. Chapter... 4, I think it was?... gave me chills.

I'd swear it's narrated by Space Ghost.

[Captain Awful]

Well, it's not voice acting, it's narration (hence why it's atrocious; couldn't they at least get a doggamn woman for the female parts?) but it's pretty damned cool. Chapter... 4, I think it was?... gave me chills.

I'd swear it's narrated by Space Ghost.

The woman being voiced by a man was unsettling, though he did a good flamboyant voice for her.

[Han den]

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj47/ahab-ahab/washmen.png

Since no one else has mentioned kc green's recent run of Watchmen strips (http://gunshowcomic.com/d/20090309.html) I guess I'll do it.

[Kaatridge]

Yeah, those were fantastic. Widdle Rory!

[Scriabin]

I liked the movie but I don't think it lived up to the comic. Too much 80's music, some superfluous scenes and some scenes that weren't even put into the movie. What's the point of introducing Hollis Mason and NOT having him butchered by the anarchists?

They should have either ended with the Archimedes flying away from Veidt's fortress to Dies Irae or the scene at the newspaper office. People started leaving anyway around that point and anyone could deduce that Silk Spectre was the Comedian's daughter without the long-winding epilogue. Zack Snyder felt the need to slow-mo everything. Also, the coup de grace, Ozymandias couldn't keep an accent.

Other than that, it was a good movie I suppose.

[chuanoplast]

Disclaimer: I have never seen or read Watchmen.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/chuanoplast/worstdr.png

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/chuanoplast/niteowl-1.png

[Captain Awful]

Disclaimer: I have never seen or read Watchmen.


I request more of this.

[loinbread]

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/chuanoplast/worstdr.png

what's wrong, Mister Manhatten? why so blue?

[Ensenada]

What's the point of introducing Hollis Mason and NOT having him butchered by the anarchists?

I knew there was something important they left out (Other than the squid). That had been bugging me since I left the theater.

Anyway, I enjoyed it, much to the surprise of my friends, who expected another Hitchhiker's Guide incident. The extremely well done action scenes made up for the few missing scenes and shaky acting. (Although the lack of the scene where Ozy reviews action figure designs shook me to the core of my being.) Although I agree with Moore, it's definitely better in its intended medium.

On my way home, I was pulled over by the police for looking suspicious (Guess a guy can't walk through the park at 2 am wearing a leather jacket and eating an ice cream cone in Nazi America) and my first instinct was to shoot a grappling hook through his chest and set him on fire. Hrm.

[chuanoplast]

Belated WATCHGUYS/GALS

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/chuanoplast/rosshy.png

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/chuanoplast/silkys.png

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/chuanoplast/ozycat.png

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/chuanoplast/mrconmedy-2.png

[Flounderman]

Seeing Bubastis actually made me bust out in laughter.

[PsychoWardJester]

Might as well post this one here... (http://psychowardjester.deviantart.com/art/FB3-118604017)

[shMerker]

I think that guy would make a good sidekick for the LOLBat (http://www.pvponline.com/2008/06/30/interlude-the-adventures-of-lolbat/).

[PsychoWardJester]

Ha, I think they already did a Rorschach parody though...he was a villain I believe...